Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Frank's avatar

Ice cores from polar ice caps may be some of our longest climate records and they cover both temperature and amount of precipitation, Has the nature of the noise in these records been studied, say during the Holocene?

In Greenland Ice Cores we apparently have three Warm Periods, the Medieval, Roman and Minoan. I don't remember whether these were linked to proxies for solar output. Should these Warm Periods really be treated as noise if they are large and have a hypothetical mechanism? (I don't think they are seen in Antarctic Ice Cores, so maybe they don't have a solar mechanism. Which leads me to problem. We can add whatever noise we want to real or simulated data, but in the real world, noise originates from some physical phenomena (though it may be chaotic, like ENSO). If you look at noise in Greenland ice cores during the last Ice Age, presumably you will find huge (10 degC), sudden oscillations in temperature associated with Dansgaard-Oeschger events. If I remember your posts on the Ice Ages correctly, there was some sort of see-saw in the Atlantic that moved warmth from one hemisphere to the other. I'm not sure I want to treat such events as noise rather than signal.

(Neither of these comments require an answer if you don't have one readily available.)

Expand full comment
Frank's avatar

Let me play the Devil's Advocate for a moment: If we have problems with long-term persistence in noise in ocean temperature data (and thereby attributing warming to rising GHGs), can we avoid this difficulty by focusing on attribution rising land temperature to rising GHG's? (To a first approximation, climate change is mostly a problem of rising temperature over land.

However, I remember that climate models have been forced with rising SSTs, rather than rising GHGs*. Use of historic SST's has some ability to reproduce the weather than is observed over land (including precipitation), but I don't remember how good this is. This reasoning suggests that noise in precipitation data and land temperature data are forced to have long-term persistence as ocean temperature data?

Expand full comment
2 more comments...

No posts